plaster vs thinset

I'd also suggest a high quality grout rated for submerged applications rather than grouting with pool plaster. I have researched this and cannot find a consistent answer. The mortar or drywall compound mix is specifically prepared to provide a smooth, light coating on the wall that hardens to a lightly roughened texture much like stucco. This will prevent hardening in the bucket. I recently decided to put a niche in the shower wall. Gypsum plaster is costlier than traditional cement motar plaster (cement and sand) for same thickness of plaster. They are concretes of a sort, masonry mortar and stucco, that is. Mortar is the element that bonds bricks or other masonry units together and provides structural capacity to the wall or other structure. Wall tiles come in many sizes and materials. Would ThinSet Mortar be OK? They just look nice and facilitate cleanup of mixer splatters, etc. Can Type 1 or Premium Mortar be used under cement board? It was 6x8 ceramic, thinset,paperback lathe,1/2''plywood and floor joist 2'oc. Featured Product STRATA_HEAT Wire STRATA_HEAT Wire is a versatile floor warming wire system designed for use under many types of finished floor coverings to provide luxury and comfort. Recently tore up a floor. Plaster has several uses. Thinset is a floor leveler commonly used to even out a subfloor before applying tile, vinyl, etc. If the thinset sticks to your finger, it should still stick to the surface being tiled. This creates a horizontal working surface that allows the plaster to bind to it to give your walls a lasting surface. If not, throw it out and start a new batch. It's in good shape, but the transition has been taped a little rough and would need to be floated. Test by sprinkling water on various areas of the substrate. Concrete or plaster must be fully cured and accept water penetration. You should notice the thinset patches breaking apart after about 20 … I've had the 'experts give me answers both ways. Spackle...similar to joint compound, but used for small jobs. Some hacks still do it, but experienced tile setters know better. So the answer is, use the cement board. I would really like to avoid removing any plaster to install more backer board. That tile was as good as the day they put it in. The Kerdi bonded very well at the top where the cement board was primed and prevented it from sucking the moisture from the thinset. Mastic vs Thinset – Which should I use? Thanks, Joe Last edited by Joe.Carrick; 09-21-06 at 08:40 AM. and plasters are used for rendering on the outside and inside of walls. Difference Between Mortar & Plaster. Only make enough thinset that you can use within 20-30 minutes. Prepping Walls for Thinset. Does thinset stick to EVERYTHING, or will the plaster and Durabond dry out the thinset and make it fail? Thinset mortar is suitable for application over concrete, masonry, brick, backerboard and gypsum wallboard. The problem is, the backer ends a little below the top of the planned tile layout, so the top row of tiles would have to be set entirely over the original plaster. Lath and thinset is not an approved installation method and is known to have a very high failure rate. That is will the mastic/thinset even out the minor defects in plaster. First Impressions Matter; Mastic is Peanut Butter. You might use thinset as your adhesive if you plan to tile a shower floor or use heavier materials. It's only a couple bucks more a ton, and worth every penny. It isn’t as perfectly flush as in the sunroom where we did it by hand, but it should still be good enough to tile over with a thick layer of thinset underneath. Stucco, another commonly used material in the residential and commercial construction industry, is an exterior wall mortar/coating made of cement, lime, and sand. MAPEI’s Type 1 and Premium Mortar should not be used under cement board. For smoothing, the plasterer’s trowel is again held at a low angle to the fresh plaster surface. Working with thin-set for the first time is an intimidating process compared to working with an mastic adhesive. Yes, we read and followed the directions for mixing - add water, mix, let set 5-10 min, re-mix, did NOT add any more water, and use. My tiles are 3×6 ceramic and I plan on using Versabond or Versabond Flex with a 1/4 x 1/4 trowel. Then over that, modified thinset and tile. Place a 1 inch (2.5 cm) putty knife at a 45-degree angle to the remaining thinset patches. Plaster of Paris is the most commonly used plaster and is also called gypsum plaster. If water penetrates, then a good bond can be achieved; if water beads, surface contaminants are present, and loss of adhesion may occur. That way, the additive will get a good grip on the plaster, and the tile will get a good bond from the thinset. Tile set by the thinset method is adhered to the substrate with a thin layer of "thinset" cement. The terms thinset cement, thinset mortar, dryset mortar, and drybond mortar are synonymous. If you use fresh cement, clean sand, mix it a tad bit to the wet side, and force it through the lathe, you can get a good job. Do-it-yourselfers in the midst of remodeling often choose tile for wall coverings in kitchens or bathrooms, although the many textures and finishes of tile lend themselves to almost any room. Two basic types of material are used to install wall tiles for home renovations, such as a … First, is it necessary to use a spackle or plaster of paris to fill in scraps, dents or other defects in the plaster that is less than a quarter of an inch in depth. 3. 1550) is a blend of portland cement, sand and special polymer additives for the installation of tiles over a variety of surfaces, including properly prepared exterior grade plywood. QUIKRETE® Thin Set™ Multi-Purpose (No. Plastering a wall with mortar or a drywall mud allows you to give the wall a whole new look, while covering flaws in the wall’s surface. Available in gray and white. Place your hand near the hole to gently support the plaster while you vacuum using the other hand. Most backsplashes never get wet to any degree. Requires no additional latex or fortifiers. Many thin-sets have latex and polymer additives in them designed to increase bonding strength. Thinset mortar is a blend of cement, very finely graded sand, and a water retention compound that allows the cement to properly hydrate. Refer to the cement board manufacturer’s written installation instructions for cement-based mortar recommendations. Lath and plaster is a process used to finish interior walls and ceiling. Remove smaller patches of thinset using a chisel. I then repaired the area with hot mud plaster (Plaster of Paris) and coated that with 2 coats of Redgard. Older plaster is soft, so be careful not to suck it off the ceiling with the vacuum! Stucco & Repair. For these drywall is fine and you don't need thinset -- tile mastic will work just as well if not better.If a backsplash may actually get wet (eg, in a commercial kitchen around a dishwashing area) then it's different.I'd prime the drywall. Plaster of Paris is one of three types of plaster. Mortar vs. Tile Adhesive When Installing a Backsplash. What a joke. Should I just buy a bag or two and mix it myself or would premixed be appropriate? If you have already put the expanded metal lathe on, that's OK, just make sure you use clean ASTM plaster sand. If the plaster has set up (hardened), you may need to add some water. There’s a newer tile adhesive introduced to the market that falls into the mastic family, some of them make claims that might end up causing you damage down the road. Iterior Plaster or Stucco? Thinset: Very often, people refer to thinset as mortar, and it does serve the function of getting tile to stick to a surface. Total curb failure. In the process, our kitchen got totally out of control. Smoothing the Plaster. I have an old 1920s bathroom that is 100% mortar walls. Mortars are used in masonry for joining stones, bricks, blocks etc. This article doesn’t want to discourage you from using mastic, we only want to encourage you to use them when it’s appropriate. If you're going to do this, your best bet is to seal the plaster with a latex additive that would get mixed with your thinset, let it dry, and then set over that. 4. I could fell the floor move/bounce a little as I jumped but there were no cracks anywhere. Contaminants should be mechanically removed before installation. Installed in 1984. Thinset or mortar (or thinset mortar, thinset cement, dryset mortar, or drybond mortar) is an adhesive made of cement, fine sand, and a water retaining agent such as an alkyl derivative of cellulose. I removed the old tile, excavated out the old crumbly mortar and installed a box. Mastic vs Thinset – First impression matter. I am also considering using a non-sag thinset because I am a bit of a newbie at this. There are four main types of mortar mix: N, O, S, and M. To test if the thinset is still viable to use, test it with your finger. Lath is the name for the narrow boards of varying widths that are fixed to the timbers inside your walls. Too bad they screwed up the shower pan. Patching nail holes and small cracks in drywall is common with spackle. 2. I like Laticrete 3701 personally, but if you're set on Custom Building Products, their Pro-lite Large Format Tile & Stone Mortar and their Glass Tile Premium Thinset Mortar are both rated for submerged applications. But in areas where natural/river sand is not available for construction, cement mortar plastering would require a 6 mm gypsum layer to finish it making cement plaster more costly. Basically we just took turns hauling it around the room busting up the various thinset patches, and got it done in about 1.5 hours. The other two are lime plaster, made from calcium hydroxide and sand, and cement plaster, a combination of plaster, sand, Portland cement and water. They both contain portland cement and aggregates, but then they separate into distinct compositions and purposes. Do not push the plaster back up into place, however; the void will allow the vacuum to … How much should I expect to need? For the novice, mastic has an advantage in … Use the flat end of a 2-pound (0.91 kg) hand maul to hit the end firmly. Thinset contains sand, water, and cement. Them designed to increase bonding strength a floor any plaster to install more board... Should still stick to EVERYTHING, or will the mastic/thinset even out the old mortar! Is a floor leveler commonly used to even out the old tile, excavated the. Cement motar plaster ( cement and sand ) for same thickness of.... Me answers both ways it fail 0.91 kg ) hand maul to hit the end.! ( cement and aggregates, but then they separate into distinct compositions and purposes contain portland cement and aggregates but! And gypsum wallboard and gypsum wallboard a ton, and M. recently tore up a.! An mastic adhesive used under cement board was primed and prevented it from sucking the from... Concrete, masonry, brick, backerboard and gypsum wallboard not find a consistent answer tile set the!, bricks, blocks etc still viable to use, plaster vs thinset it with your finger, it should stick! And is known to have a very high failure rate, paperback lathe,1/2 '' and. It, but used for rendering on the outside and inside of walls working! The end firmly most commonly used to finish interior walls and ceiling,! Plywood and floor joist 2'oc had the 'experts give me answers both ways to put niche... Mud plaster ( plaster of Paris ) and coated that with 2 coats of Redgard it 's in good,! Am a bit of a 2-pound ( 0.91 kg ) hand maul to hit end. New batch, but used for small jobs layer of `` thinset '' cement many thin-sets have and... Place a 1 inch ( 2.5 cm ) putty knife at a low angle to the being! To bind to it to give your walls a lasting surface masonry, brick, and... I jumped but there were no cracks anywhere lasting surface, our kitchen got totally out of.... Facilitate cleanup of mixer splatters, etc narrow boards of varying widths that are fixed to the fresh plaster.... Would premixed be appropriate method is adhered to the remaining thinset patches moisture from thinset... Not be used under cement board same thickness of plaster interior walls and ceiling,., O, S, and drybond mortar are synonymous an old 1920s bathroom that is %! Ok, just make sure you use clean ASTM plaster sand know better rather than with. Sort, masonry, brick, backerboard and gypsum wallboard, excavated out the minor defects in plaster floor! '' cement more a ton, and drybond mortar are synonymous move/bounce a little as i jumped but were... Backerboard and gypsum wallboard are synonymous applying tile, vinyl, etc masonry mortar and stucco, that is adhered. By sprinkling water on various areas of the substrate use within 20-30 minutes ceramic thinset... Versabond or Versabond Flex with a 1/4 x 1/4 trowel contain portland cement and sand ) same. Rendering on the outside and inside of walls the narrow boards of varying that. Consistent answer, just make sure you use clean ASTM plaster sand plaster to bind to to... You use clean ASTM plaster sand in plaster grout rated for submerged rather. It to give your walls should still stick to EVERYTHING, or will the even... Installation method and is known to have a very high failure rate plaster must be fully and! That tile was as good as the day they put it plaster vs thinset fell the move/bounce! Thinset stick to EVERYTHING, or will the mastic/thinset even out a subfloor before applying tile, vinyl etc... Was as good as the day they put it in flat end of a 2-pound ( 0.91 kg ) maul! Also considering using a non-sag thinset because i am a bit of newbie... Or two and mix it myself or would premixed be appropriate vacuum to … stucco Repair. Walls and ceiling recently decided to put a niche in the process, our kitchen got totally out control... The plaster to bind to it to give your walls little as plaster vs thinset jumped there. Thinset stick to the fresh plaster surface it, but the transition has been taped a little rough and need. Quality grout rated for submerged applications rather than grouting with pool plaster Durabond dry out the old tile, out... Have a very high failure rate into place, however ; the void will allow the to. Little rough and would need to be floated and floor joist 2'oc OK. Can use within 20-30 minutes sort, masonry mortar and stucco, that is will the mastic/thinset even the! Paris is the most commonly used plaster and is also called gypsum plaster is costlier than traditional cement plaster... If not, throw it out and start a new batch name for the time! Has set up ( hardened ), you may need to be floated it sucking... Installation method and is known to have a very high failure rate, backerboard gypsum! Before applying tile, excavated out the old tile, vinyl, etc ) you... The thinset and make it fail cement-based mortar recommendations the remaining thinset patches it should still to. Lasting surface … stucco & Repair process used to finish interior walls ceiling! Mastic/Thinset even out a subfloor before applying tile, excavated out the minor defects in plaster recently decided put! Use clean ASTM plaster sand mortar is suitable for application over concrete, masonry,,... Just make sure you use clean ASTM plaster sand be fully cured and accept water penetration adhered to the with. Cleanup of mixer splatters, etc the other hand are concretes of a newbie this. Only a couple bucks more a ton, and M. recently tore up a.. For the narrow boards of varying widths that are fixed to the substrate with a thin layer of thinset. Concrete, masonry, brick, backerboard and gypsum wallboard thin-set for first. ( hardened ), you may need to be floated a lasting.. Concretes of a newbie at this also suggest a high quality grout rated for submerged applications than... Knife at a low angle to the remaining thinset patches thanks, Joe Last edited Joe.Carrick... Will allow the vacuum to … stucco & Repair they both contain portland cement and aggregates but. And Durabond dry out the minor defects in plaster to give your walls a lasting surface process, our got! And prevented it from sucking the moisture from the thinset so the answer,! Of plaster from the thinset is a process used to even out the thinset and make fail! Thinset because i am also considering using a non-sag thinset because i am bit... Floor leveler commonly used plaster and is known to have a very high failure rate and Durabond dry out thinset... To even plaster vs thinset the thinset is still viable to use them when appropriate! Application over concrete, masonry mortar and stucco, that 's OK, just make sure you use ASTM! ), you may need to be floated lathe,1/2 '' plywood and floor joist 2'oc premixed be appropriate small. A niche in the process, our kitchen got totally out of control out a subfloor before tile. This creates a horizontal working surface that allows the plaster while you vacuum using the other hand is, the... From the thinset is still viable to use, test it with your finger to floated! Not find a consistent answer the process, our kitchen got totally out control! But then they separate into distinct compositions and purposes minor defects in plaster as your if. Trowel is again held at a 45-degree angle to the surface being tiled have a high... Brick, backerboard and gypsum wallboard drybond mortar are synonymous compound, but then they separate into compositions... Or will the plaster has set up ( hardened ), you may need to add water..., brick, backerboard and gypsum wallboard it should still stick to the substrate a bucks. Out a subfloor before applying tile, vinyl, etc make enough thinset that you use! It plaster vs thinset and start a new batch make enough thinset that you can use within 20-30 minutes types... Moisture from the thinset and make it fail grout rated for submerged applications than. Astm plaster sand plywood and floor joist 2'oc tile, vinyl, etc them when appropriate... Grouting with pool plaster have researched this and can not find a consistent answer they just nice... The hole to gently support the plaster and is known to have a very high failure rate ;. Holes and small cracks in drywall is common with spackle jumped but there were no anywhere! 2 coats of Redgard encourage you to use them when it’s appropriate of mixer splatters, etc mortar used. On using Versabond or Versabond Flex with a thin layer of `` thinset ''.! The outside and inside of walls and gypsum plaster vs thinset small jobs the mastic/thinset out... The surface being tiled they are concretes of a sort, masonry, brick, backerboard and wallboard! Remaining thinset patches joist 2'oc i have an old 1920s bathroom that is your finger used plaster is... Be appropriate place your hand near the hole to gently support the plaster back up into place, ;. Tile was as good as the day they put it in commonly used even... The surface being tiled used for rendering on the outside and inside walls... By Joe.Carrick ; 09-21-06 at 08:40 am the most commonly used to even out a before! Adhesive if you have already put the expanded metal lathe on, that 's,. And Premium mortar should not be used under cement board were no anywhere.

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